System.io, the French Click Funnels, by Aurelian Amacker

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Hi young’s infopreneurs.

I wanted to interview Aurelian Amacker because he have explored something interesting that few French infopreneurs have explored so far, and even the infopreneurs in the world, especially the Americans, there are also very few who do it, that he started exploring the world software by creating his own software called “System.io” which is the Click Funnels in French.

Gymoba: For those who do not know what Click Funnels is, maybe you can give quickly “what’s System.io”

Aurelian Amacker: Click Funnels is an American software that have been around for four years, which are enjoying extraordinary success and that allows to create what are called the tunnels of sale, that is to say grosso modo is the pages that build your audience with forms, capture pages and then convert people into customers through pages of sale, payment pages, private training sites.

The most automated way possible to really remove you a lot of hassle and try to simplify your life to the fullest. It’s interesting because so many infopreneurs focus primarily on products information and finally, software is a natural complement to what we do because the infopreneurs, our goal is to give value to people to through advice to improve their business, their lives. But software can do exactly the same thing, to simplify their lives enormously. Here, the goal of system.io is really to automate a maximum steps of everything that is marketing, marketing …, also delivery of the customers so that entrepreneurs can focus on the essentials, to know how to bring value …

Aurelian Amacker: The trick is to create your business online, you need software, you need an infrastructure.

And I was not satisfied with the tools that existed, and I had this crazy idea to launch my own software. I have a lot of trouble, but today, we have a product that is still quite efficient because there are people who come from Click Funnels who say they prefer system.io, that it’s simpler. Therefore, we are very happy and that is good at this moment.

Gymoba: And your big interest too is that you are French, you are an infopreneur French, you know very well the needs of this profession. Myself, I could to test certain aspects of the system.io a few months ago, I had made you lifts and, basically, you implemented everything I sent you.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, it was really relevant because you had the point of a new user since you tested it and you said to me: this is not illogical. We put it in place and it allowed us to improve the software. After that, it’s software, so we’re always improving it. I’m not saying it’s perfect, there’s no bug.

There are bugs, there are also have people who pay $ 300 a month with Click Funnels and who tell me that it bugs and support, they have no answer … so it’s not cool. But we’re really happy, it’s a great product, people are really happy, there is a community. It’s a beautiful human adventure and besides, the idea was to make a product that is still more accessible because that Click Funnels, it starts at $ 97 a month and we, we wanted for the offer launch make an offer where it starts at 27 euros per month.

That’s fucking bad. People, they fart a cable. They see that and they say, “But wait, what is that? It’s crazy, it’s Click Funnels in French cheaper? You must not believe. What’s funny is that there is has people who see it a little bit away. It’s not the people who have tested, but these people who see it from a distance and who say to themselves: since

it’s cheaper, it’s less certainly … And people, when they try, they say: “but no”. Sure, we do not have all the features of Click Funnels, we’re still in the process of improvement. We really have the main features, we can create tunnels of sale, we can create the pages, we can integrate with Stripe, with PayPal, make from One Click, Upsell.

That’s crazy. That’s what I use in my two business since you know that I sell trainings on how to learn English and trainings in web marketing. We are very happy with this product and it is super intuitive. For design, we went to work with a designer in the United States. I can say that it is a sacred mission.

Gymoba: Yes, it’s pretty. Before going into detail, it’s interesting to know how you came into this environment and how you did it to create all that, to find the right people … At the base, are you an infopreneur?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes.

Gymoba: What happened so that at one point you say,

“Okay, I’m going to explore my software, I’m going to do a startup from

that.”

Aurelian Amacker: It was a bit crazy; we’ll say. With hindsight, I am told that I was not satisfied with the existing tools because the problem, it is often necessary to connect different software since Click Funnels, often you use it, you integrate it with your autoresponder … You must know that at the time when I had the idea of this project, Click Funnels already existed, but at the time, we could not completely customize the payment pages.

: So, I left on it and you must know that it is a project that took a lot of time. I found a first team, a company in Morocco.

So, I will quickly go because roughly, I lost a year and 30,000 euros.

Gymoba: With them?

Aurelian Amacker: With them.

Gymoba: So, you found a team at the base to develop the software of zero. You said to yourself: I’m going to do French Click Funnels?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes.

Gymoba: So, you made a plan? Did you do something? You just said to your team, “Ok, I want a Click Funnels French.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, it was badly done. He was a client of my training who has a box in Morocco. And frankly, that was the Cat from the start. In fact, you have to know what to do develop software is extremely difficult. I know four people, I think, who wanted to do what we did, who did not succeed or who are still in the middle of trying. So, do not think it’s easy, it’s extremely difficult. Somewhere I say to myself: I won at lotto by finding the right people.

Gymoba: So, it’s mostly the story because finally, you had no experience in there. You were an engineer computer.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, I have a Bac + 5 in IT and networks but not in software development since it’s not my thing.

I do not know how to code. After, I have a little culture … but no, we learn on the job. And what’s funny is that Moroccans since from the start, it was bad. You see, my client, finally my client, yes, now it was me who was his client. I said: Listen, we have customers, they pay 20 euros a month, they send an email, they have an answer. Me, I’ll tell you pay 2,000 euros per month, I send an email and I have no answer. I think that he is a problem.

Gymoba: That’s clear. It’s a bad sign.

Aurelian Amacker: As it was the cat, we were going to see him in Morocco sometime later for a little bit trying to do Starting the project, and the funny thing was that we were in a meeting. And I told them: yes, by the way, I discovered that there are agile methods, the method scrum. You know?

Gymoba: Yes, standing meetings which are effective.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, that’s it. It’s not so much standing up, as it is rather developing incremental software. In two weeks, we will try to do that and that, and after two weeks, a potentially finalized version of the software is delivered. This is the scrum method; this is what all startups do for twenty years. And I tell them: yes, I found this thing and all, we should not work like it.

They work the old way: Messenger, Skype … And the guys, they look at each other like that and they say: Scrum, what is it? Go ahead, look, we will look. It’s a level of incompetence where you do not know you’re incompetent, so you’re potentially dangerous to society and for your customers.

Gymoba: It’s not the right person.

Aurelian Amacker: It was not the right team, I confirm it.

Gymoba: You still had to tell yourself: it’s not the right people, I have to stop, too bad for 30,000 euros. It’s not easy when you hire money to say …

Aurelian Amacker: Yes. After, we make a good living. 30 000 euros, it is not crazy, but there are people who have lost more.

Gymoba: Why a year, suddenly?

Aurelian Amacker: Because it put them a year to get nowhere, the application was bumped everywhere, it did not look like to nothing. There were security holes, I said to them: Guys, listen frankly, that there are bugs, it can happen, indigo, it can happen, but that the customer data is disclosed, the confidentiality of the data is discounted in question, it is unacceptable.

I sent an email, no answer. Two weeks later, I was under my shower, I said to myself: I sent an email and I do not have an answer.

What do I do? How do I restore them? I swear, I wake up at night, I think about it, I say to myself: Okay, so what I’m doing? It was that level. It’s like that. And after, I looked for providers, I worked with different providers who took over the project and did not manage. Finally, I found a developer with whom I found he was very good, that he was doing a good job. And then we recruited a second, a third, and that’s where the project was really starting to start. Today, we really have a good product.

Gymoba: These developers come from which country?

Aurelian Amacker: They are in Russia.

Gymoba: Are they all Russian?

Aurelian Amacker: They are Russian.

Gymoba: Okay. You think that it is chance or if there is perhaps a first standard.

Aurelian Amacker: I think in Eastern Europe you have people who are very competent. It’s funny because it’s expensive and cheap.

Gymoba: When it’s cheap and nothing happens, in the end, it’s expensive.

Aurelian Amacker: What I mean is that the price that costs me, these developers, it is substantial, it is not nothing. But compared to the value they are able to create, it’s not expensive. So, it was a bet, it took a long time. We will say that it took a year to have a really square product that holds the road, then we are always improving it. Today, we have 700 paying customers when we launched it not so long ago that it officially.

Gymoba: A few months ago?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, a few months ago.

Gymoba: 700 paying customers, it’s good.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, it’s not bad. I think we will quickly become the leader on the French market in terms of number of customers, not necessarily in terms of revenue generated, but in terms of terms of number of customers in 3-4 months normally.

Gymoba: It works well. I see that there are many people who use it.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, it’s really a standard.

Gymoba: So, you want the people can exchange live, it’s easier.

Aurelian Amacker: No, when you do development, me, it takes me pretty much two, three hours a day to develop system.io. Every morning, I arrive.

Gymoba: You coordinate people, you do not code yourself.

Aurelian Amacker: No. I do not code. I tell you: I do not know how to do it and I do not not want to do. It’s to answer their questions about the product, to try to set the priorities.

Gymoba: So that, you said to yourself: “I do not want to do that”. It served you as a counterexample.

Aurelian Amacker: Me, my vision of the project from the beginning, it is a rather ambitious vision where it is, we will launch a software level of US startups.

And you have to know that this is something that I did not specify since I did not really respond to this question: why did you want to get started in the software? I’ve been listening to startups for weeks, podcasts about startups. I do not do not know if you know Mixergy. It’s very well known, it’s Andrew Wanner, he’s interviewing startups for years. By the way, he came to Lisbon, I could not meet him, it was pretty funny. Finally, it did not happen, so udder. But I think it’s an excellent business model since it’s a recurring one. It’s software, it’s been years and it made me want to do that. From the beginning, my ambition was to create a real product that is competitive internationally, that is to say with a design that is professional and obviously with the aim of launching on the English market which is I estimate about 20 times bigger than the French market.

Gymoba: But it’s a big problem that I notice in Francophone companies in general, is that they miss a lot of ambitions compared to Americans. Americans have a hard time understanding something that exists outside of the United States. But as after a while, they go there and anyway, they do not prevent no longer do people do it, they help each other a lot. But you see that startups Americans has a lot of ambitions from the start. They want to conquer really.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, clearly. After, if you look at it because the thing is that we are a bit in the field of infopreneurs, it’s a bit of a niche, it’s a bit special.

Gymoba: I will give names. If you compare Click Bank which is the processor number 1, the number 1 payment for infopreneurs in the United States and the equivalent in France, for a long time, it’s been a TPE, it’s clearly not the same ambition, the same vision and all that.

And it’s not just to point the finger here, but it is very common that there is this lack of ambition. That is to say, there are many cultural factors and all that. You said to yourself from the beginning: I want to go beyond what most francophone companies do; I want to have the same ambition as American startups.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, clearly that’s it.

Gymoba: Is it on a podcast that inspired you?

Aurelian Amacker: It is to listen for years to startups and frankly, I urge you to do it, it’s extremely inspiring. I know that there is a box that inspired me a lot, it’s ConvertKit just changed name recently, I think today it’s called Seva or I do not know what.

Gymoba: Yes, it’s like Drip and Active Campaign is really an autoresponder.

Aurelian Amacker: They did AWeber but pretty. They make 10 million now.

Gymoba: And also, who evolves a little because Weber, he is doing a lot of harm to …

Aurelian Amacker: There, AWeber, they make 20 million. The founder, he does not care.

Gymoba: It shows because qu’Weber, it was great in 2010, it was good in 2015 and after a while …

Aurelian Amacker: That’s obvious. For design, how did we do it? That was a real adventure in itself because I identified the website where the designers are, it’s called Dribbble. This is where you find the best, it’s a kind of social network. They publish their work, people leave comments … the best they have a lot of followers …

Gymoba: You mark them right away and they are extremely requested.

Aurelian Amacker: You mark them all from Then you open a message to them, the end of the story. And here, I had a little luck and a little nerve, that is to say, there was one who had a great profile, who had worked with a very big startup. I contacted him, no news. A week later, I thought, I said: what am I doing? And I have sent a message like that with a lot of cravings, a lot of emotions, I showed him that his work, I liked him.

I said, I would really like working with you and everything, I love your job …, thing. He answered me, he said to me: I just left the mission, we can discuss. And we started working together. You have to know that a designer like that is $ 5,000 a week.

Gymoba: But a full week?

Aurelian Amacker: Full time, yes, but I must explain to you. Sunday, I send $ 5,000. The Monday, I was hot potato. You have to know that he’s in California, so, it’s 8h shift.

Obviously 10am, no problem. I see the time ahead 15h, 16h, 17h. I say: that’s it, it’s 10am now in California, what’s up? 18h-19h, no news. In fact, the guy is an artist, do not bother him. He is busy. Perhaps, he’s working on your project, there were still days when I thought maybe he’s at the zoo with his family and me, it’s going to cost me $ 1,000. In short, it cost me $ 20,000.

Gymoba: So, 4 weeks of work.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, four weeks.

It cost $ 20,000 in the end. After, you have integration since the guy, he sends you images.

Gymoba: Oh yes, that’s it and after, you go out of your way to put that in your thing.

Aurelian Amacker: That’s your problem. So, there you have to see an integrator.

Gymoba: He does not work with programmers at all?

Aurelian Amacker: No.

Gymoba: He does not care.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes.

Gymoba: You tell him: I have such pages, I have such pages and he, he dismisses and after …

Aurelian Amacker: He’s going to ask me questions about the functional side, since he is aware that behind, there are people who will use it.

So, we have a design that is really good, that is to say that people are super happy, we are often complimented on it, the interface is fine. So that’s the design, we had a year, nothing, it was a big construction site. We released features. There, we come to finish translating it into English. It’s the same, it took a long time because he there are a lot of elements … We’ll start …

Gymoba: If you had integrated it from the beginning in the programming does to keep casts for the … It’s completely differentiated from the code, it’s going to look for the variables and variables, it’s …

Aurelian Amacker: After, you have adjustments because we had translated it into English and I have my developer who tells me do all the pages’ templates are in French, that does not pose any problem? Yes, it’s a little worry anyway. So, we had to implement the codes.

Gymoba: Now, you make the templates universally and who will look for the language

Aurelian Amacker: Actually no, now we have templates in French and in English.

Gymoba: And Spanish?

Aurelian Amacker: I think there is also potential in Spanish and my wife is Colombian. By the way, for info, I was talking about Click Bank recently, but there is hot art that you know, I think, who was started in 2011 in Brazil and today they are over 100 people they have an office in Madrid, they are doing everything. They arrive in Europe and to my opinion, it’s going to hurt a lot because Click Bank as good Americans, despite their vision and all, they never wanted to get out of the United States. If you look at Click Bank, it’s a box, I think, that dates back 99.

I think it’s a box that has a technological debt thatis too important. In fact, that’s what happens. Click Funnels, I realize that there are a lot people who are now less and less satisfied because they say: it does not change Plus, there are bugs. This is not to spit on the competitors since Click Funnels, it’s still a great software and it’s an extraordinary success. But clearly, I feel that there are more and more unhappy users because it’s a box too big in fact.

And when you are too fat, you become slow. It is also our advantage is what allows us to be retroactive.

Gymoba or when you make 20 million, you’re a little lazy like AWeber, you say to yourself …

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, that’s exactly right. It’s simple. AWeber, the guy who started it in ’96, he was a student and today, he makes 20 million. Click Funnels, it’s the same, they’re 60 million. It gets very big; you have a technological debt that becomes important. It allows actors to come up with something a little cooler. It is our card to play, I think. And so, we will launch on the Spanish market, because I think it has potential, since I am, there is an Englishman who do the same thing as me.

I think it’s not so good. We were in Moscow; I was going to meet my developers and I showed them. I tell them: no, but the design, it does not, it looks like a design …

Gymoba: Because he did not pay 20,000 for …

Aurelian Amacker: No, I do not know what he did, but the design, it seems 2006, that is to say you have 30 billion options, it’s not pretty. But he’s doing a great job, he has a Facebook group called who Keyvio. Moreover, there has French people interested in Keyvio.

They have a Facebook group. I like the work he does

because he publishes a lot of content, it’s quite dynamic. I think he must have 1000 customers to $ 30 a month. He has to make 30 or 40,000 a month. So, it turns. But what I noticed is that there are people, often it’s Mexicans but not that who post in Spanish in the group since it’s a group in English, you are not supposed to post in Spanish, and there are people who answer them in Spanish. I think if you come to the Spanish market with a competitive product in Spanish at an affordable price, it will go out of business and that’s what we will do since I speak Spanish fluently and my wife is Colombian. And the Portuguese market, I do not do not know, yes, maybe we’ll launch it but everything in its time.

Gymoba: Already, it’s good that you have this international vision from the beginning and that it works well in French. Just a technical question in relation to the design, the guy gives you the pictures, after, what’s going on? Do you have news pages that were not planned at the base, you call him or?

Aurelian Amacker: Excellent question.

Gymoba: Where did you have the templates still, native files, for example: Photoshop where it would be top for you can you make your own changes?

Aurelian Amacker: We have the native files, but we do not know how to do it. So indeed, since we’ve added a lot of things, it’s one of the things we have to do in the coming months since we added a lot of features of new pages, to rethink the design.

Gymoba: Okay. But he does it.

Aurelian Amacker: Either him, he does it, I’ll maybe contact him or maybe contact another person a little cheaper. It’s often discussed with my developers and we say to ourselves: we’ll see when that happens. I think we’ll go through it, it’s easier.

Gymoba: OK, cool. What are next steps now apart from attacking internationally?

Aurelian Amacker: The next steps in terms of functionality, today, you can generate your sales tunnels. We have the autoresponder that is included and unlimited, it is important to specify it, you do not need to integrate with another autoresponder.

Gymoba: Just to have a small overview of all the features. Your autoresponder, the landing page, that is to say the pages used to register the people.

Aurelian Amacker: That’s it, the capture pages form.

Gymoba: Do you have forms what can you put on the blog?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, of course, the form, popup.

Gymoba: So, all that is lightbox, the popup. You have the said popup or not?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes.

Gymoba: Yes, super awesome. So, you do like a little monster finally. What’s the matter? So, the sales page?

Aurelian Amacker: Sales page, payment page, private training site. All my trainings are on system.io.

Gymoba: So, there are Stripe and PayPal.

Aurelian Amacker: That’s it, Stripe and PayPal.

Gymoba: And you can connect to others stuff or is it just right now?

Aurelian Amacker: No, for now, it’s just Stripe and PayPal. It’s already not bad.

Gymoba: It’s already essential.

Aurelian Amacker: And Upsell page.

Gymoba: Upsell page, Ok, so Upsell automatic.

Aurelian Amacker: Upsell, Down sell.

Gymoba: In one click. Upsell is the complementary products you offer.

Aurelian Amacker: It’s right after the purchase, right after the payment page. We say “Eeeeh, Wait, I have something for you.

Gymoba: We have another right for customers.

Aurelian Amacker: Actually, the idea is we have the tool.

Gymoba: And all that is for 29 euros a month?

Aurelian Amacker: 27 euros per month.

Gymoba: 27, but it also depends on the number of users you have?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, you are limited to 5,000 contacts.

Gymoba: That’s good already.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, you have something to do. You have no limit in terms of uploading video files …

Gymoba: Can you put the videos in?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes.

Gymoba: The product is also in the training is integrated and all that.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, of course.

Gymoba: Okay, but it’s still really cheap. You had planned to increase your price at a time or not? Because there, it’s not really expensive.

Aurelian Amacker: For now, it’s the introductory offer and the people are very happy and that’s good. So, we say to ourselves: why not?

Gymoba: And you manage to win money with only 29 euros?

Aurelian Amacker: Today, we are in balance, but we have a lot of customers arriving. So now it’s going to start to become profitable. Now you have the tunnel generator of sale. The next features, it will be for e-commerce since There are people who sell with system.io of physical products, in Drop Shipping. We will work with the Drop Shippers to try to understand their workflows, for try to help them because it’s the same, there is a big opportunity since are people who use Click Funnels to sell physical products and it’s a little trouble, they use apps. In short, we will try to do something good. And then, it’s going to be a market place, a market place. And that’s something that is very important to me. It’s going to be the idea to say, if you have your product on system.io, your training, your sales page, your payment page, your sales channel, you will be able to publish your product on the market place, in the Marketplace, and other system users will be able to find your product, buy it eventually. And finally, promotion in affiliation, because we manage also the affiliation. I have an affiliate program.

Gymoba: Oh yes, all right. Like that, people who sell a product can ask affiliates to view this product. And after, I guess the System.io cannot automatically pay affiliates.

Aurelian Amacker: No, it’s not yet the case.

Gymoba: You have the recap. And I think that on PayPal, you can upload in batch. You may be able to suggest a Csv that can be uploaded in PayPal.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, we will see. It, it’s something we’re going to improve because today the payment of affiliates is done manually, that is to say that each person must pay its affiliates.

Gymoba: But the calculation is done automatically?

Aurelian Amacker: The calculation is done automatically. We generate the affiliated invoices, it’s self-invoicing. There is just to pay, there is just to make the payment. The market place sells physical products and it’s not bad.

Gymoba: It’s already not bad. And I’m sure there are some who say: wait, but the guys, they still have not talked about the RGPD. We have a relatively similar point of view on the question, but your spell, I imagine, he’s ready for that.

Aurelian Amacker: The RGPD, my answer is very simple is that you are not a lawyer, consult a lawyer to help you. We, we give tools to be compliant, to respect the RGPD, that is to say we a small check box that you can add on your forms to get the explicit consent of people.

Gymoba: FYI, there is still Thibaut Devergranne you know who is a doctor of law specializing in data, that’s really his specialty. He wrote a whole article on his blog that is called “Personal Data” where he explains, he proves by a plus is that the checkbox is not required. What is needed is explicit consent people. He says: from the moment the form is explicit enough, the simple fact of filling out the form is more effort that ticking a box, that’s enough. However, it must be indicated by for example, if you sell promotional offers, you sell promotional offers. This is his point of view. After that, we have no case law yet.

Aurelian Amacker: To put it very simply, that is to say that this thing, it stirred the canvas for months, people, it’s a bit of the bug of the year 2000.

Gymoba: That’s exactly it, yes.

Aurelian Amacker: We said: guys, May 4 or I do not know what, it’s not going to happen, nor the next day, nor the next day. The reality, I will not go into the details, but roughly speaking, they cannot afford to check everyone. From time to time, he taps on a group of people to make an example.

Gymoba: There is no incentive to do illegal things. And it must be said that he does not have to be so super stressed, there are a lot of people who have panic.

Aurelian Amacker: No, the problem is that for me, I even saw competitors who sold packs species, lawyers …, RGPD who surfed on it. We have customers, we are here to help them, we are not there to wring them out and not to help them.

If there is still a philosophy in the long run, I think it will not work in their favor. I said to people: the reality since I know my clients very well, it’s either people who have a job wanting to create a business, people who started their business and who are alone, these people who have very limited resources, they do not have a lot of money, they do not have a lot of time, so that means focusing on the stuff they produce, a result. Create products, talk with customers to understand what their expectations are, launching new offers, that’s something that will have a direct impact. That is to say you will make sales and you will make money. Everything else is accessory. And I’m assuming that from the moment we are honest, we help people, we sincerely want to help our customers, offer quality products, people can unsubscribe in a click of my email lists, I do not spam anyone.

Everyone signed up of his own I do not do anything wrong; people are free to unsubscribe. It’s free to register, you unsubscribe in one

click. It’s good, I’m doing what I have to do what.

Gymoba: Anyway, at the beginning, you cannot focus on all the regulations that exist, it’s impossible. It’s also from startups’ perspectives. It is also this idea that there are laws, sometimes they are a little late compared to society. At first, we have something else to do and that’s it. Do not do anything completely illegal, there are priorities actually as an entrepreneur. It’s no use being compliant and not having customers.

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, to protect you.

Gymoba: Protect yourself against what if you do not have a customer?

Aurelian Amacker: To protect yourself.

Gymoba: For people who want to test system.io, what do you propose?

Aurelian Amacker: You can test systme.io for free for 14 days. You do not have not even need to enter your payment details, because we know we have an excellent product. So, you can test it, you have access to all the features. You can register right away. You enter only your email address since obviously, we need your email address to create your account, and you can right now to start creating your sales channel, start creating your business online.

Gymoba: 14 days to have fun, to test the interface, see if it’s worth the blow for 20 000 dollars. People will be able to see for themselves. Do not hesitate not to leave a comment because it’s worth it or not. So, you have three Russian developers, it starts to do a lot of investment, plus the 30 000 euros that were useless with the first team.

Aurelian Amacker: But it’s an investment that are not

that huge compared to the value that is …

Gymoba: Me, I have the impression because 5,000 people. You have as competitors who offer cheap stuff, there is Mailchimp, they are free up to 2,000.

Aurelian Amacker: Mailchimp, it’s just an autoresponder.

Gymoba: Exactly. It’s just a function when you propose a lot. I do not know other software that offers so many functions for as little expensive.

Aurelian Amacker: After, the market is immense. We are going to attack a market where boxes make between 5 and 100 million a year. Our vision is 3 to 5 years and maybe 5 to 10 million and to be a fortnight of people, we do not have the vocation to make a huge box, we have a vocation to make a little box.

Gymoba: And still without a physical office, you think to stay in virtual?

Aurelian Amacker: Yes, clearly it works very well.

Gymoba: It’s interesting. In the other competitors, most of them are physical or virtual, how is it going, you do not know?

Aurelian Amacker: Click Funnels clearly, they are in Boise, Idaho. They are in the classroom. And after no, I do not know. I think that as I say to you, we do not have vocation, we are not there to try to make tens of millions, we have vocation to stay a profitable little box, bootstrap, with people who are happy and offer a quality product. And frankly, it’s a huge market. We know that if we make 5 million, it will not change Click Funnels, it’s not okay to change all that. This is our vision!!